“So far, so good. But, long way to go.” Q&A with Cubs’ Theo Epstein

Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein met with Chicago reporters over Zoom for more than a half-hour prior to Tuesday’s 5–4 win over the Royals. Epstein spoke about the upcoming road trip, which includes a stop in St. Louis to face the Cardinals, who recently dealt with a rash of positive COVID-19 tests. He also discussed the team’s strong start, the early impact of manager David Ross and much more. Here are the highlights of that chat.

Q: With everything happening across baseball over the past week or so, what have your conversations been like with Major League Baseball and the Cardinals ahead of this weekend?

TE: “Well, Major League Baseball has a lot to work through with the Cardinals each day to try to assess the situation. So, we’re approaching it as if we’re going there to play. We have to prepare to go and we’ll just wait to hear definitive word when it comes. Obviously, if they determine that those games should be played, it’ll come hand in hand with a determination that it’s safe for us. I’m sure they’ll share the relevant information and be transparent about everything that’s transpired, so that we can, in turn, reassure our players and staff who would be making that trip that they’re not putting themselves in harm’s way.

“There’s been good communication and collaboration to try to work through this. It’s an evolving situation and we’re just going to remain flexible and communicative, and see where it leads us.”

Q: How confident are you that the series with St. Louis will actually happen?

TE: “Yeah, I don’t know. I’m not in a good position to assess it, honestly, because of the confidential nature of these things. At this point, the only people who really have the information are Major League Baseball and the Cardinals. So, we’re going to give them space to work through it and make the assessments that they need to make, and then share the information with us as they make a determination. They’re pretty busy working through things right now.”

Q: How do you assess your team’s hot start?

TE: “Yeah, it’s a nice start, but we can’t get out too far ahead of ourselves. It’s just 10 games. Under normal circumstances, that’s less than 1/16th of a season. Obviously, this year it carries a little bit more weight, since it’s a sixth of the season, but we can’t be patting ourselves on the back at all. There’s a lot of a tough road ahead. But, it’s nice to see some elements of the team come together.

“The energy of the group and the camaraderie of the group has really stood out. You guys can tell by watching the games. Our dugout’s alive every night, and I think that reflects how much our guys are into the season and there for each other, and really trying to turn the 2020 season into something that’s memorable, even amidst all the crisis that we’re all operating under.

“So, yeah, so far, so good. But, long way to go and there’s a lot of challenges ahead.”

Q: You guys have had no positive tests among your players. You have kind of buttoned up the road bubble with your policies. When you look at the recent outbreaks, what do you think MLB may have missed that you guys have seemed to be able to anticipate?

TE: “It’s impossible to say why the outbreaks occurred. I think there’s been a lot of speculation. I’m going to stay away from that kind of speculation, because it can be dangerous. I don’t have any facts about why the outbreaks occurred. So, obviously, with the nature of this season and what everyone’s trying to pull off, and traveling to get through a regular season amidst a pandemic, it comes down to a lot of personal responsibility and organizational responsibility.

“And looking around the game, the vast, vast majority of players and staff are doing a great job and leading by example and staying diligent with the protocols and all the behaviors that are necessary to pull this off. And every single player, and every single staff member, and their families, are making real sacrifices.

“So, we have to keep that in mind and not let sort of salacious speculation turn our focus onto things that may have gone wrong. Now, I think the important thing, because it was always anticipated there would be positives. There are positives across the country in all walks of life. I think the important thing is that all of us learn from this.

“Major League Baseball, the teams, the players, staff members, the players’ association, we all learn from this, adjust the protocols, if necessary, recommit to the level of personal responsibility that’s needed to get through this, have each other’s backs to help each other execute the way we all need to execute, and carry on with, hopefully, better numbers.

“There have been two outbreaks. I think the goal for everybody is that there are none going forward. I have no idea how realistic that is, but that’s the goal. We’re trying to pull off the season and the threshold is health and safety for our players and staff. It has not been perfect, obviously, but we hope it improves as we go and we learn from what’s gone wrong and we still have a chance to pull this off.”

Q: Is personal accountable and industry standards enough, given the national landscape? What’s your confidence level that you guys can play another two months, plus given the state of the country overall in terms of numbers?

TE: “I don’t know. Again, I think adjustments will be made. I’m sure there’s a consideration of different enforcement mechanisms that might help hold everyone accountable, including those who weren’t able to hold themselves accountable. In the end, though, no matter what measures are put in place, when you’re trying to pull off a season that requires travel in the middle of a global pandemic, it ultimately does come down to personal responsibility.

“And everyone is at the mercy the least responsible person, because of the nature of spread with this disease. So, is personal responsibility enough? I don’t know. There are other safeguards you can put in place to sort of encourage that type of personal responsibility, but again, I’ll fall back on, the vast, vast majority of everyone involved in this enterprise — players and staff — are doing a solid job so far and making a lot of sacrifices.

“We just have to get everybody on board and, hopefully, these two outbreaks are enough to get everyone to the point where we have essentially perfect execution going forward. Because, that’s largely what it will take.”

Q: How much concern is there about the fact that people can get the virus even if they do follow all the protocols and are accountable?

TE: “Yeah, and I was not implying whatsoever that everyone who’s been positive has not follow protocols. I don’t think that’s the case at all. That’s not how this works. The infection is throughout the country, and that’s the reality. And so, if you’re traveling around, there’s real risk. So, no, protocols are not perfect, right? No set of protocols are perfect.

“They’re designed to minimize the risk as best as you possibly can. They’re designed to put you into a position to reduce your chances of getting the infection. And then, if someone in your organization gets it, they’re designed to try to minimize the spread. Now, obviously, in these first two examples, it’s proven really difficult to contain the virus once it’s infiltrated an organization.

“I think that’s the focus of what we need to learn from this and try to make some adjustments. But, it’s impossible for any set of protocols to eliminate the chance of infection. That’s just not going to happen. So, there should be no inferences out there that everyone who’s positive has violated protocols. That’s just not how this is working.

“Everyone I know outside of baseball who’s become positive, who’s gotten COVID-19 at some point, did everything right, you know? Washed their hands. Wore masks. Socially distanced. And they still became positive. They don’t know where. It could’ve been in the grocery store. It could’ve been walking down the street.

“And, as far as I know, that’s the case inside baseball, too. Setting rumors aside, the people that I know in baseball — that I personally know in baseball — who have become positive, did everything right. So, that’s just a good reminder for us that no set of protocols will keep everyone safe.

“We have to continue to learn from every day that goes on, tighten up the protocols, adjust the protocols and make sure our execution is as close to perfect as we can possibly get, knowing that even that’s not enough to ensure there won’t be positives. There will be. That’s the nature of this.

“This is everywhere in the country and it’s, unfortunately, going the wrong direction nationwide. It’s a fraught environment out there that we’re operating in and we’re going to need to do our absolute best and also be fortunate.”

Q: Based on all of that, can you imagine a scenario where baseball might look into creating a bubble for the playoffs?

TE: “I’m just focused on the Cubs right now and the regular season and trying to ensure the health and safety of our players. Look, I’m sure… this is a multi-dimensional challenge to say the least, so I’m sure that everyone at Major League Baseball, everyone at the players’ association is focused not only on the crisis that we’re facing right now, but how things might look in a couple weeks, how things might look in a couple months and planning all kinds of alternatives to help us stay as safe as we can and pull off the season. It’s above my pay grade. I’m just focused on keeping all our guys negative today.”

Q: On the baseball front, can you tell us what you have observed with Craig Kimbrel? David Ross has been forthcoming, but also private at the same time to try to help Kimbrel get out of this both physically and mentally.

TE: “Yeah, I echo what’s been said. I think everyone’s kind of zeroed in on a couple mechanical issues that he’s been having. Sometimes it takes failing the course of a few games to be able to really see it and tackle it head-on and make the adjustments, especially someone who’s had so much success. Craig is elite at what he does and has tremendous mental toughness. He is not someone to back down from a challenge.

“This is a new type of challenge for him. If you look at his career, he’s just been so dominant. He hasn’t been through this much before. But, we’re proud of the way he’s handling it. He’s tackling it head-on, putting in a ton of work in side sessions and poring over video and data and mechanical analysis to get the right answers, so he can get the right feel and make the right adjustments.

“And Rossy’s got his back. He’s not going to turn his back on him while he goes through this. He’s going to give him the ball. He’s going to try to pick the right situations for him as he works through these adjustments. But, I think the rest of the ‘pen has really stepped up the last couple days.

“I think everybody’s expectation is that Craig will work his way through these adjustments and reestablish himself as someone who can be dominant. And what a boost that will be for our ‘pen when that happens.”

Q: Health and safety is paramount, but how concerned are you about a possible stoppage getting in the way of your team playing so well?

TE: “Honestly, I’m not that concerned about that, because by definition, if we have a stoppage in play, it means that something’s gone wrong and that there’s been somewhat of an outbreak and that people are sick. And that would be where my concern is. We’ll deal with the baseball consequences as they come, but everyone’s in this together, trying to keep everyone safe.

“I should say, since we’ve been talking about the Marlins and the Cardinals, I’d be remiss if I didn’t say I wish everybody who became positive well. I hope everyone stays asymptomatic or that their symptoms resolve quickly, and that they can return to good health and to the playing field as soon as possible.

“But, that would be the way we’d handle it as an organization. If we have a stoppage in play, it means something’s gone wrong. And we’ll do our part to make it right and then we’ll figure out the baseball part later.”

Q: Were you in favor of the upcoming roster change — 28 for the season and playoffs — and how much did executives have a say in that? Can you take us through that?

TE: “It hasn’t been formally approved yet. … Maybe I’ll talk about it next time we do this. Suffice it to say, the Cubs are supportive of anything that will help players stay safe, help players and staff and teams get through the season healthy, both in terms of COVID-19 and staying safe on the field with normal baseball injuries. As long as a rule adjustment is conceived to keep players safe and it can be applied fairly across the board, we’ll be supportive of it.”

Q: Do you and GM Jed Hoyer go on the road trips, or is that necessary or allowed?

TE: “Yeah, it’s allowed. We weren’t sure how to handle it and we decided on the first road trip not to go, just to keep our numbers as small as possible on the road. It seems like it makes sense from a health standpoint, and we decided instead to try to communicate through a lot of texts and phone calls and Zooms, FaceTimes and whatnot, and see if that was adequate. And, if it was adequate, we’d keep doing that. And, if it was insufficient, we’d adjust and send someone on the road.

“We got through that first trip fine, even with the rain delay. It went OK, so as of now, we’re not going to travel anybody, just to kind of do our part to keep the numbers as small as possible. Keep communicating with phone calls, texts, FaceTime, etc; But, if there are issues that come up where we’re needed, given the nature of our travel, we can always just hop in a car and drive there and be there same day, if necessary.”

Q: This core that’s been together for the last few years, there’s been criticism for whatever it might be. One thing that was said, maybe by you or Jed last year, was there was a sum-of-the-parts issue. I’m wondering, through this process, if you’re learning anything more about the sum of the parts with these core guys through all these challenges?

TE: “Yeah, I’ve never given up faith in our guys. I think when you refer to a sum-of-the-parts issue, as you say, it’s really about the group as a whole coming together and the environment. And have we been able to create an environment that can bring out the best in players and put them in a position to succeed, build connection between players and a sense of urgency, so to speak, so that, ultimately, we put our best foot forward as a team. And that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

“That’s an area where we collectively have fallen short, I think, the last couple years. I think we’ve had more talent than the results would indicate the last couple years. You know, that’s why there have been different attempts to change the environment. You guys that have followed the club have known that.

“This year, obviously, any time you bring in a new leader, there’s by definition a significant change in the environment. Joe had that affect when he got here in 2015. It was transformative, where it created an incredible environment, where our young players at the time could be themselves and develop more quickly than anyone had anticipated. And I give Joe all the credit in the world for that.

“And that’s the nature of change sometimes. I think with David Ross in place as a new leader, it’s been equally as transformative, just in a different way, where I think it’s brought guys together. It’s helped them rally around a common cause. I think everyone feels lucky to be here and together and want to make their mark playing together as a group and for Rossy.

“And so, I’ll give the players and Rossy a ton of credit for making the new environment that I think has brought out the best in all of us and in our identity.”

Q: Don’t you have to take some credit for some of the player development that’s happening? Like the Ian Happs and David Botes. Like, making the tough decision last spring on Happ and the 180 that’s taking place right now with him and some of the other younger players?

TE: “Look, the organization succeeds and fails with our players, right? It’s not a credit game or a blame game. It gave nobody any joy to send Ian Happ down to Triple-A last year. When he was not in a position to play well at the big league level, that was all of us not being ready together. We were all, in the moment, sort of failing together, because we believe in Ian Happ and we believed then and we believe now that he’s going to be a really good player.

“We thought it was the right move and something that was necessary, even though it was really unpleasant to send him back there. To his credit, he made the absolute most of it, took personal responsibility. There were a lot of great staff members helping him out in player development and I think he absolutely took advantage of his time down there and is in a different and better phase of his career now because of what he went through.

“There will still be ups and downs along the road, but no, in the arc of a player’s career, you don’t jump off and on the bandwagon or pat yourself on the back in one moment or bury yourself the next. We’re all in this together with individuals and the way they develop, and then the group as a whole and how we play as a unit. Look, right now, it’s a nice moment, because we’ve played well the last 10 games. There’s going to be moments this year, even in a short season, where it feels like we can’t do anything right.

“I think the sign of a great organization is that during those good moments, you can look around and see all the different people who are contributing and making it happen. And at the tough moments, leaders step forward and take responsibility for it. We’re in this together and, right now, it’s a nice moment for a lot of our guys. They deserve the credit and the staff members working hard with them.”

Q: Is there anything that you would underline that Ross has done so far?

TE: “Yeah, everything. You’ve been around. The guy creates energy all by himself. He creates accountability. The players have so much respect for him, that I think they want to do well for him. There’s a sense of not wanting to let him down. I think for a first-year manager, he’s been incredibly aware of all the little things that go into keeping an organization and Major League team functioning and humming long, anticipating problems before they happen. Having those extra conversations.

“He’s been self-aware as well, sort of aware of his own lack of experience in certain areas or elements of his personality that maybe don’t fit a certain situation. He’s done a wonderful job delegating, empowering his coaching staff, empowering veteran leaders, challenging them to step up and do more, and they’ve responded. So, yeah, I think it’s been everything we could ask for one-sixth of the way into his first season. But, no, he’s been — along with the players and staff — obviously, as a manager, he plays an important role in being responsible environment that you see around here right now.”

Q: You just listed off all those great qualities of Ross, but is there anything that’s happened that he’s pulled off that you maybe questioned how he’d be able to handle it, or how he’d do in a situation? Is there anything he’s impressed you with or surprised you with that way?

TE: “Yeah. His instincts as a player on when to call out a teammate and when to go out of his way to be there for him on the other hand were always great. He always knew whether it was time for the carrot or the stick. I think there’s always a question of how well that’ll translate as a manager, because the relationship is different. It’s just a different dynamic. There’s more instances when you have to call guys out. You can’t sort of wait until things are obvious sometimes.

“And he’s showing that same great feel, man. It’s been really impressive. Including, there are some things that, look, a baseball team, no matter how successful, always has lingering issues, right? Well, this guy needs to work on this. Or, this guy, sometimes he can be a bad teammate when he does this behavior and doesn’t even realize it. It’d be really great if we could get this guy to focus a little bit more, this guy to work a little bit harder. Let alone the front office. We’ve got tons of things we need to get better on.

“But, he has stepped in and helped address some things that have been lingering for years, you know? And to do that his first month on the job essentially, his first two weeks as a regular season manager, is just really impressive. It just shows he’s fearless. He’s alert, observant and has great emotional intelligence, kind of knowing when to step in to challenge a player and call him out, and knowing when to step in and offer a kind word and support and make it really clear that he’s got a player’s back.

“I think that’s a big part of being a leader and being a manager in the Major Leagues these days, and he’s just got really good feel for it. And he has not eased his way in. He’s on it in a very, very impressive way.”

Q: How do you feel he’s handled the Kimbrel situation? It can be difficult to handle a veteran closer like that.

TE: “Yeah, I mean, I don’t want to talk too much about it, because I think part of what makes him great at these relationships is the confidentiality, right? He’s not going to sit there and talk about all his conversations. When he talks to a player, he’s not going to come to the media, necessarily, and talk about it. Even though it might make him look good to do that, he’s not going to do it. The relationship with the player is sacred.

“So, I’m not going to talk about the behind-the-scenes stuff. But, I’ll say, the stuff that you guys can see on the field and that he’s already talked about, I think he handled it great. He didn’t wait until we lost a game to address the situation, which I think a lot of managers would’ve done. Safety of, as long as you’re winning, things are OK. He’s a keen observer of the game and, again, has no fear.

“So, he didn’t need us to lose a couple games to make a change. Not even lose one game in the ‘pen, late in a save situation. I don’t think we’ve blown a save this year, right? So, he stepped in proactively to address the situation, but didn’t make it a criticism of the player or single anybody out. He made it really clear that he’s got Craig’s back and he believes in Craig. He does.

“Again, they’ve got a real relationship and, shoot, he helped scout Craig for the Cubs. He helped recruit him here. He’s absolutely invested in him and has his back and has handled it great, giving Craig the space he needs to tackle some of these mechanical issues and come back. That’s not easy for someone with his track record to take a small step back and do that. And he’s also done right by the team. Again, that’s a good example of his feel, his relationship-building skills and his fearlessness as well.”

Q: Can you expand on saying Ross addressed some things that had been lingering for years?

TE: “Just stuff that, when you evaluate players or you evaluate systems, it’s never all going to be perfect, right? There’s always things off. If this player could just be ready the first at-bat of the game, instead of easing his way into the game. Or, if this players could be locked in in the dugout all the time and really be into the game and be there for his teammates, what an impact that would have on the guys.

“Sometimes, at the end of the year, you get to an evaluation and things become patterns, right? You end up saying the same things about the same guys. Just like if someone were critiquing me, they’d identify the same flaws in a lot of areas that I had three years ago, because I’m not perfect at addressing them. That’s just human nature — it’s just the way it goes.

“And sometimes you get to a point where like you assume, well, that’s really difficult to address and we may not be able to fix that. But, he’s just taken a broad view of the job, he’s been really proactive and he’s stepped in and shown good feel in certain areas that are really difficult situations to address. He’s not afraid to try and to make guys better and make the group better.

“And that’s not a critique of anybody else or anything that’s come before, because these are hard situations and nobody’s going to be perfect. So, when you have a group of 30 players and all the staff members and the whole organization, even in the best organizations and the most successful teams, there’s a lot of things that go wrong. There’s dysfunction in every organization.

“No one’s got perfect character, perfect behavior, perfect execution. You can see that as a problem or you can see it as an opportunity? And, man, he’s really stepped in and helped a lot of guys. He’s helped a lot of guys confront things that maybe they had taken for granted and work on addressing them and making them better.

“Look, it’s just impressive when someone new in the job is willing to tackle things that need to be tackled that aren’t always comfortable.”

Q: On a different subject, and it feels smallish within the pandemic and all the health issues, but do you have any better sense, if we can persist beyond some of these outbreaks and things can get rolling, do you have any better sense of what player acquisitions at the Trade Deadline might look like league wide? And would you guys even be in position to add?

TE: “There’s just so much uncertainty. I don’t know. With respect to the market overall or what the dynamic might be between teams that think they might be out of it and teams that are looking to get better, I would just be speculating, you know? I still think there will be trades, but in a season where there’s no guarantee of seeing it all the way through — as much as everyone’s put into this and we have confidence we can do it, there’s no guarantee — it might impact the trade market to an certain extent. So, how that impacts volume of transactions, we’ll see. Teams would have to sort of value that factor similarly in order to get something done, which could happen, or it might represent an obstacle.

“And, as far as our situation and whether we’d be able to do something, it’s day to day, man. We’re going to be impacted by how successful we are in pulling off a season as an industry. We’ll be impacted by our ability to generate some revenue and our ability to control expenses. It’s unlike any other time, where, financially, obviously given what our revenue projections were and what they’re going to be, it’s about trying to limit the damage as much as we can.

“So, I think everyone’s in that boat across the industry. It’s not complaining. In the real world, people are trying to do that so they can put food on the table. So, no one’s complaining about it. But, there’s just so much uncertainty. We’re kind of day to day and we’ll keep getting more information and figure it out as we go.”

Q: It’s Ross’ call with the lineup, but are you hoping other leadoff options emerge so Kris Bryant can move to the middle? What’re your thoughts on what you’ve seen so far from him at the top?

TE: “No, I’m happy with the way things are going. The lineup’s functioning well. Kris was in a funk to start the year. He obviously had a nice night [Monday], so I think it’s a leap to say that’s related to the leadoff spot. And in the days he hasn’t been in there, Ian Happ has done a really nice job getting on base and looked good in his opportunity there. No, I mean, our roster’s our roster. It’s not going to be perfect. But, I think we have a chance to have a really good offense. There’s a couple different ways you could go with the leadoff spot, but look, the most important thing is throwing the best players out there as often as possible and letting them do their thing and letting them get the most at-bats. I think Rossy’ done a great job of creating roles and expectations and consistency, and at the same time, getting good matchups. That’s his area and he’s doing a great job.”

— JB